LMT Lab Day West, see and try the Medit Hybrid scanner and earn CE credits

Discussion in '3D Scanners' started by Glenn K., Apr 20, 2016.

  1. Glenn K.

    Glenn K. Moderator Staff Member

    Visit our booth and test out our Identica Hybrid 3D dental scanner at LMT Lab Day West from Fri, May 13 - Sat, May 14.

    Also, earn CE credits on Sat, May 14 from 1:00 pm to 3:00 pm with Kyle Kuhns, MDC, CDT, as he leads us in "Advancing with Medit Identica and Exocad"

  2. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member

    My friend Glenn deleted my funny post on DLN about lifetime warranty with Medits if you swear you let the leeds off. I would say girls reaction.
  3. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    Any start-to-finish videos of scanning impressions?

    I heard it takes around 10 minutes to complete the scan.

    I am still not a believe that this is good idea.

    Anyone out there actually doing this over 50x and happy with results?
    Stan Lindsey likes this.
  4. Glenn K.

    Glenn K. Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Scott,

    Here is a video of the impression scanning workflow on YouTube:

    When I have time I can make a video of the impression scan so you can see how long it takes.

    Add-e likes this.
  5. Glenn K.

    Glenn K. Moderator Staff Member


    I did a double sided impression scan and timed it at 2 mins 32 seconds from the time I clicked the scan button until the data was in the scan software. I hope this helps.

  6. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    You can just tell me how long it takes.
  7. Glenn K.

    Glenn K. Moderator Staff Member

    2 minutes and 32 seconds.
  8. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    Hmmmmmm, No way!

    How did it get that fast! :confused: It was around 10 minutes+

    So, a typical stone model requires 7-11 different angles, and 2-3 minutes seems normal times for both arch.
    Impressions require many more! A lot more! Many many more angles and positions to capture the data.
    Then processing time by software...and trimming data and closing holes etc...

    This has nothing to do with the scanner or the software, but I think it is bad idea to try and scan an impression in general.

    No matter what scanner is used, unless you are going to scan with an X-ray scanner to see around corners.

    I understand how Medit and others want to sell the entire package to Doctors and this is One way to get their attention along with the weird business plan that Medit originally had for their chair-side mill. But.....come on. What a stupid idea.

    I think scanning impressions will be a 100% fail and waste of time. I feel sorry for people who buy based on this dream.

    Cool technology to have a Three axis scanner and a great attempt at this though!

    I still wait to hear about success stories and business actually doing this.

    It makes no sense to me. I can make a stone model in just a couple hours for $5.

    To go 100% digital....it takes a lot longer and cost a lot more.

    24hrs to 3 days for digital model at $20-$20 a set.....then a tech needs to dick around with some model-creator software instead of 30 seconds trimming a stone model.

    So why the fok would any lab even think this is a good idea? :wacky: Beats me?
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
    cadfan likes this.
  9. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member

    I dont think these triple tray scan is for labs , that makes no sense to me . The market become closer and closer and saturated . They have no IOS for these cases thats how they can tell the DOC here is our solution.
  10. Glenn K.

    Glenn K. Moderator Staff Member

    The labs that are doing impression scanning have told me they can scan 80-85% of the impressions that come to them. The rest go into another bin and are off to the model department.
    If a model takes your lab a couple of hours and your total cost is $5 then lets use those numbers to look at the cost and time savings of reducing your models by 80% with impression scanning:

    How many models do you make in a day/week/year?
    Multiplied by $X cost per model and reduced by 80% per year.

    5 models/day
    x 261 (working days in 2016)
    =1305 models/yr. x $5 (cost per model)
    =$6525 (total model cost per year)
    - 20% ($1305) Reduced model requirement by 80%
    =$5520 annual savings from scanning impressions vs. pouring models for each case.

    $6525 Annual model cost per year without impression scanning
    $1305 Annual model cost per year with impression scanning.

    $5520 annual cost savings.
    What is your time worth?
    1305 models x 2 hours per model
    = 2610 hours per year.

    1305 - 80% (reduction in models)
    = 261 models
    = 1044 impression scans

    261 x 120 minutes = 3,320 minutes or 522 hours per year
    1044 x 10 minutes (impression scans take less than 10 minutes but just for fun I will use your time of 10 minutes/ scan) = 10,440 minutes or 174 hours per year
    696 hours per year scanning impressions and making models as needed

    2619 hours per year models only, no impression scans

    2619 - 696 =

    1923 hours per year in time savings.
    The Medit Identica Hybrid scanner can easily switch from impression to model scanning giving users freedom to choose what they need.
    The Medit Identica Blue scanner offers an optional accessory to take advantage of impression scanning as your lab requirements change.
  11. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member

    as i said buy a ios if you want to make it model less , these triple trays are crap how many things must be done twice because of simple physics that didnt work the wright way , under the line you save zero !!! you waste time and money.
  12. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    Well....I wait to hear from people (customers) who make money doing this.
    Maybe it work 70-80% of the time....all the time, but is it faster? (No) Cheaper? (No) Better? (No)

    The time to scan the impression, then work that data into a model using model-creator software is going to be more involved and more expensive than traditional $0.20 of stone and a few minutes of labor. It takes just minutes of labor to make a stone model. Pour, grind, pour.....sure there is waiting time for stone to harden, but this is 10x faster than trying to 3d print a digital model and 10x better info!

    You are adding in the labor, scanner cost, and the $20-$25 digital model into your math right Glen?

    It is not a better solution. It maybe works....but why bother?
    Only if you are Medit trying to sell to Dentists. Then, I understand.

    For labs.....pfffft. No thanks!
  13. RDCLarry

    RDCLarry Member

    Being a one man lab it works for meI've been scanning impressions with good success for the last few months now with my hybrid and the 3-axis arm. I have a few docs that actually cut some nice preps and take some pretty good impressions with triple trays. I t really does save me a lot a time.... I scan, design, then just pour a solid model on each side later. ( I do agree stone models are less expensive and a solid model takes little time to pour) No dealing with pins, bases, or check dies. Minimal adjustments if at all. The feedback from these docs has been great....very little adjustment if any all. They all have good things to say about the fit and quality. On average an imp scan from beginning to end will take me about 6 minutes w/ crop and edit. The actual imp scan itself does only take around 3 minutes. Full arches I still use a solid model with a check die.
  14. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    and....you use the model creator module to work that scan-data into good shapes?

    Ditching the die, correcting defects in the impression? etc....

    Removing and smoothing spit, blood-bubbles, and air-bubbles?

    I find this process is way quicker with a stone model than using software to do this.
  15. RDCLarry

    RDCLarry Member

    Not model creator.....In the basic design module, before marking the margin ( if there are minor defects) , I just switch to Expert Mode and use "free-form scan data" option and sometimes "edit mesh" to digitally correct any defects if I need to. ( You have to deal with it digitally or on an analog die either way...digital "die fudge" :) With some practice one can get good at straightening things out and takes the same amount of time as doing it on a stone die.

    Obviously, if the impression is not clear and has large pulls, bubbles, and general nastiness, (lol) I'll need to pour and scan conventionally.....or tell the doc I need anew imp ;-) ( If the doc tells to do the best I can and does not want to re-impress , I definitely let him know that he's gonna pay again if it doesn't fit...)

    I definitely pick and choose the cases that I scan the imps, but any time saved with not having to deal with model prep is fine by me. ;)

    I dunno, I also think that if you can scan good clean accurate impression, your are removing one less accuracy variable... the expansion and contraction of a stone model. I can only go by the feedback from my docs ( The ones that take good enough imps for me to scan.) They tell the fit of the margins, occlusion, and contacts are right on...rocking
    ODT and Glenn K. like this.
  16. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    And you are making money eh? Much more than before?

    For something to work, I need to see a business make money.

    Otherwise....forget it!

    Many things work, but do not make money.

    You are a One person lab?

    I am looking for feedback from medium or large labs I guess.

    IMO, small labs and One man labs often are not very profitable and do stupid things.

    No offense to you personally.

    If the business model of scanning impressions is profitable, then I do want to hear all about it. I do work with many of the largest labs in Canada and US, as well as hundreds of medium and small labs. I have yet to hear anyone tell me this is the way to go.

    This is just the facts and evidence I have seen myself.
  17. cadfan

    cadfan Moderator Staff Member

    Just for the gallery that time to my knowledge theirs no impression material out with zero contraction thats why you need a small expansion on plaster to equalize it and to control it over longer distances modell systems like zeiser, modelltray or .....
  18. RDCLarry

    RDCLarry Member

    Scott, I do understand what you are saying.

    Worked in small/medium sized lab for 6 years, then have been on my own 35 years....I have a VERY different business model.
    I have done quite well, and I'm fortunate and thankful to still be here....

    It may not be the way to go now for medium or large labs, but it could in the future... Just my opinion....one man, small, medium or large, one of the biggest "bottlenecks" for time an labor is the model/prep department. Time saved is money saved...And, more time for "Beer-thirty"
  19. DMC

    DMC Scott Hudson

    Of course analog impression and stone model is 10x more accurate than scanning with digital scanner.

    I think Larry is just trying to find something to complain about with the analog way of life.

    Hey, listen......I am 100% BIG fan of all things digital.
    But, from a business point of view it must work and be profitable.
    Otherwise, it is just cool technology that I watch from a distance and not incorporated into my business.
  20. RDCLarry

    RDCLarry Member

    I hear ya, Imagine that is easily compensated for in the software...

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